I think there's a Nationals going on, but I'm not sure. The contest is over in two days, and so far no word on who's winning or even if there are scores. Anybody have any intel?

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:16:45 AM UTC-6, Papa3 wrote:
> I think there's a Nationals going on, but I'm not sure. The contest is over in two days, and so far no word on who's winning or even if there are scores. Anybody have any intel?

http://www.ssa.org/members/contestreports/contestresultsdetail.asp?id=2208&display=results

The 1-26 Nationals are being held concurrent with the 13M regional and the reporting is combined.

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 12:26:25 PM UTC-4, K wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:16:45 AM UTC-6, Papa3 wrote:
> > I think there's a Nationals going on, but I'm not sure. The contest is over in two days, and so far no word on who's winning or even if there are scores. Anybody have any intel?
>
> http://www.ssa.org/members/contestreports/contestresultsdetail.asp?id=2208&display=results
>
> The 1-26 Nationals are being held concurrent with the 13M regional and the reporting is combined.

Yeah and... ??? You'll note that there is no 1-26 scoresheet - at least none I can find. Unless something changed radically, the 1-26ers have a separate set of rules and scoring algorithms, so there should be another set of scores.

>
> Yeah and... ???
......And I was kinda wondering about that myself. If you look at the ranking (Both daily and cumulative) you can see how the 1-26ers are doing.

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:13:24 PM UTC-4, K wrote:
> >
> > Yeah and... ???
> .....And I was kinda wondering about that myself. If you look at the ranking (Both daily and cumulative) you can see how the 1-26ers are doing.

Well, not necessarily. Devaluations, whether or not someone got a finish, etc. are all different in the 1-26 rules. So, for example, on the last day where scores are sort of posted, Team 428 shows up with 628 points. However, the written report suggests that they actually get 1000 points per the 1-26 rules. So, they may actually be in 1st place, not 4th. Maybe. Oh, and one of the two team pilots may have actually won the day. And he's not even 18 years old.

Just kinda disappointing that a Nationals isn't getting better service on the scoring/posting front. Tony's doing a wonderful job with the color commentary.

P3

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:30:09 PM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:13:24 PM UTC-4, K wrote:
> > >
> > > Yeah and... ???
> > .....And I was kinda wondering about that myself. If you look at the ranking (Both daily and cumulative) you can see how the 1-26ers are doing.
>
> Well, not necessarily. Devaluations, whether or not someone got a finish, etc. are all different in the 1-26 rules. So, for example, on the last day where scores are sort of posted, Team 428 shows up with 628 points. However, the written report suggests that they actually get 1000 points per the 1-26 rules. So, they may actually be in 1st place, not 4th. Maybe. Oh, and one of the two team pilots may have actually won the day. And he's not even 18 years old.
>
> Just kinda disappointing that a Nationals isn't getting better service on the scoring/posting front. Tony's doing a wonderful job with the color commentary.
>
> P3

As of last night, the team of Daniel/Ron was in first place.

JP

On Jul 17, 2:20*pm, Jp Stewart > wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:30:09 PM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:13:24 PM UTC-4, K wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Yeah and... ???
> > > .....And I was kinda wondering about that myself. If you look at the ranking (Both daily and cumulative) you can see how the 1-26ers are doing.
>
> > Well, not necessarily. *Devaluations, whether or not someone got a finish, etc. are all different in the 1-26 rules. * So, for example, on the last day where scores are sort of posted, Team 428 shows up with 628 points. * However, the written report suggests that they actually get 1000 points per the 1-26 rules. * So, they may actually be in 1st place, not 4th. *Maybe. *Oh, and one of the two team pilots may have actually won the day. *And he's not even 18 years old.
>
> > Just kinda disappointing that a Nationals isn't getting better service on the scoring/posting front. * Tony's doing a wonderful job with the color commentary.
>
> > P3
>
> As of last night, the team of Daniel/Ron was in first place.
>
> JP

There is something to be said for the regular rules, and Guy Byars'
excellent efforts to include swift score reporting to the SSA website
from winscore. I never quite understood why 1-26 needs to roll their
own.

John Cochrane

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:16:45 AM UTC-6, Papa3 wrote:
> Anybody have any intel?

Another thing to consider is that the results (As they are posted on the SSA website) are preliminary. Maybe they will be separated later. It is interesting that with two sets of rules both classes apear to be flying the same tasks every day.

All the daily 1-26 scores, up to today, are posted in my latest report under the 13.5 meter contest. I will try to get a cumulative in the morning and put it up with the morning report. At the moment Team 428 is running away with the team trophy and Bill Vickland (238) has a bit of a lead (somewhere between 100 and 200 points) over Bob Hurni (190) in the individual competition.

Our Scorer has been having trouble getting the SeeYou score sheets to post on the SSA website. He has been working with the SSA webmaster and I believe long time scorer Tom Pressley to try to figure it out with no luck.

Sorry this has taken so long, I know that many of you have been wondering what is going on. It has been frustrating here too.

Daniel and Ron have been flying masterful contest in 428. The slight differences in 1-26 vs Sports Class rules have really been showing themselves. I'm sure that all the 1-26'ers have been focused on their championship rules and have taken a hit in the Sports Class contest as a result. As far as the comment on same tasks, I *think* that the 1-26 and PW-5's have been flying the same tasks for several years, they just have been scored completely separately in the past instead of having combined sports class scoring like this year.

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:16:45 AM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> I think there's a Nationals going on, but I'm not sure. The contest is over in two days, and so far no word on who's winning or even if there are scores. Anybody have any intel?

And before any of the 1-26 die-hards get on here, thats the 1-26 Championships :D

>
> Well, not necessarily. Devaluations, whether or not someone got a finish, etc. are all different in the 1-26 rules. So, for example, on the last day where scores are sort of posted, Team 428 shows up with 628 points. However, the written report suggests that they actually get 1000 points per the 1-26 rules. So, they may actually be in 1st place, not 4th. Maybe. Oh, and one of the two team pilots may have actually won the day. And he's not even 18 years old.
> P3

Yes, on Day 4, Daniel did win the day in the 1-26 contest while being scored as a landout in the 13.5 meter contest. He didn't just win either, he killed us. I can say with certainty that the rest of us 13.5 meter guys are really glad he didn't find another 500 feet on that final glide. I think he did just turn 18 though, but he has over 1500 hrs of cross country racing on Condor. He does have 2 diamonds in a 1-26. He followed up the "half win" from Day 4 by winning both contests fairly and squarely today. This kid is going to be a force to be reckoned with in the future.

> There is something to be said for the regular rules, and Guy Byars'
> excellent efforts to include swift score reporting to the SSA website
> from winscore. I never quite understood why 1-26 needs to roll their
> own.
>
> John Cochrane

There is certainly something to be said for swift posting of results on the web page. Unfortunately we have not had this so far this year, but the 1-26 group has ROLLED THEIR OWN FOR YEARS. In fact the 1-26 group was the first group to allow GPS use during a contest. We also give more credit for miles achieved when you land out, and we still think the winner should get 1000 points no matter how many landouts there are. Why devalue a day because it is hard.

John, borrow or buy a 1-26 and come out and race with us. It is very different flying cross-country in low performance, and we would love to have you. This year we brought rain and weak conditions to TSA making it more challenging.

Next year looking at Moriarty!!! It is a hoot out there.

Kevin
192

So, just to clarify...The 1-26 contest is being scored by see you using the 1-26 rules, but the same 1-26 pilots are also on the super-regional scoresheet and being scored for two contests at the same time?

John Cochrane

On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:21:38 AM UTC-5, (unknown) wrote:
> So, just to clarify...The 1-26 contest is being scored by see you using the 1-26 rules, but the same 1-26 pilots are also on the super-regional scoresheet and being scored for two contests at the same time?
>
> John Cochrane

Yes, that is correct John.

The 1-26 breakfast and awards ceremony is in the morning. I'll try to put up a post on the SSA website with the final results tomorrow night when I get home.

On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:21:38 AM UTC-5, (unknown) wrote:
> So, just to clarify...The 1-26 contest is being scored by see you using the 1-26 rules, but the same 1-26 pilots are also on the super-regional scoresheet and being scored for two contests at the same time?
>
> John Cochrane

Correct.

In the past most years we have flown different task, but this year flying the same and all the 1-26s are included in the 13.5.

Because of the different rules, placings on some task are very different and you have to decide which rules you fly by to effect your score.

Kevin
192

I posted my final report of the contest, which includes what I remember of the 1-26 breakfast this morning with trophy winner and top 3. Check it out under the 13.5 Meter Contest Reports on www.ssa.org

http://www.ssa.org/members/contestreports/contestresultsdetail.asp?id=2208&display=results

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:16:45 AM UTC-6, Papa3 wrote:
> I think there's a Nationals going on, but I'm not sure. The contest is over in two days, and so far no word on who's winning or even if there are scores. Anybody have any intel?

The combined 13.5 meter and 1-26 Nationals was a really well run, fun and safe contest. The 1-26s won several days in less than perfect soaring conditions. It was especially good that several young men flew (and flew well) the contest (and provided the weather briefing).

I am looking forward to next year.

Bill Snead
6W

> The combined 13.5 meter and 1-26 Nationals was a really well run, fun and safe contest. The 1-26s won several days in less than perfect soaring conditions. It was especially good that several young men flew (and flew well) the contest (and provided the weather briefing).
>
> I am looking forward to next year.
>
> Bill Snead
> 6W

It's great you guys had a good contest. I'm especially glad to see both 1-26 and 13.5 meter come together and I hope this format thrives and expands. (We had 6 PW5 show up for the sky soaring weekend contest, so I hope there is some new blood for next year.)

From this distance though, a few points. According to the contest reports, there was one injury requiring medical attention. And one pilot scored a finish under 126 rules even though he landed short of the airport. Is this "safe?"

Also from a distance, the fact of no scoresheet is a bit of an annoyance. OK, you're flying 1954 gliders, but that doesn't mean we have to have 1954 scoring! The one cumulation of scores posted on day 6 left more questions open than answered. For example, why does every finisher have exactly 2:00.00 time on day 5? Clearly the poor scorer is doing a lot of fudging to get 1 26 rules and conventional scoring software to work together. Thanks to Tony final scores are hand copied to the daily report, but no final daily scoresheets to let us see how people did what they did.

The practice of posting scores, which is expected for all sanctioned contests, is important to contestants as well as the larger community can see what's going on and check if it's right.

John Cochrane

On Monday, July 23, 2012 9:06:58 AM UTC-5, (unknown) wrote:
> > The combined 13.5 meter and 1-26 Nationals was a really well run, fun and safe contest. The 1-26s won several days in less than perfect soaring conditions. It was especially good that several young men flew (and flew well) the contest (and provided the weather briefing).
> >
> > I am looking forward to next year.
> >
> > Bill Snead
> > 6W
>
> It's great you guys had a good contest. I'm especially glad to see both 1-26 and 13.5 meter come together and I hope this format thrives and expands. (We had 6 PW5 show up for the sky soaring weekend contest, so I hope there is some new blood for next year.)
>
> From this distance though, a few points. According to the contest reports, there was one injury requiring medical attention. And one pilot scored a finish under 126 rules even though he landed short of the airport. Is this "safe?"
>
> Also from a distance, the fact of no scoresheet is a bit of an annoyance. OK, you're flying 1954 gliders, but that doesn't mean we have to have 1954 scoring! The one cumulation of scores posted on day 6 left more questions open than answered. For example, why does every finisher have exactly 2:00.00 time on day 5? Clearly the poor scorer is doing a lot of fudging to get 1 26 rules and conventional scoring software to work together. Thanks to Tony final scores are hand copied to the daily report, but no final daily scoresheets to let us see how people did what they did.
>
> The practice of posting scores, which is expected for all sanctioned contests, is important to contestants as well as the larger community can see what's going on and check if it's right.
>
> John Cochrane

Mel's back injury falls firmly under the category of things you can see from 10 feet that you can't see from 100 (or 1000 feet) when picking off field landing sites. Coupled with the lack of shock absorption in the 1-26 and he sprained his back. He was flying again after letting his teammate Cathy take over for a few days.

Daniel had investigated the fields short of the airport and knew what to expect from them. He told me that until the last mile or two he thought he had the airport made, and his trace backed that up.

I agree that scoring was frustrating for everyone involved. The Day 5 1-26 finishers (all 3 of them) show 2 hrs on course because they came in under time and 2 hrs was the minimum time for the day. I was just an observer but it seemed to me that the scoring with SeeYou was fairly automatic with the scripts that Terry got from Tom Pressley, the biggest problem was that Terry was unable to figure out a way (even after working with the SSA Webmaster) to get the SeeYou scoresheet up on the SSA website.

On Monday, 23 July 2012 08:06:58 UTC-6, (unknown) wrote:
> > The combined 13.5 meter and 1-26 Nationals was a really well run, fun and safe contest. The 1-26s won several days in less than perfect soaring conditions. It was especially good that several young men flew (and flew well) the contest (and provided the weather briefing).
> >
> > I am looking forward to next year.
> >
> > Bill Snead
> > 6W
>
> It's great you guys had a good contest. I'm especially glad to see both 1-26 and 13.5 meter come together and I hope this format thrives and expands. (We had 6 PW5 show up for the sky soaring weekend contest, so I hope there is some new blood for next year.)
>
> From this distance though, a few points. According to the contest reports, there was one injury requiring medical attention. And one pilot scored a finish under 126 rules even though he landed short of the airport. Is this "safe?"
>
> Also from a distance, the fact of no scoresheet is a bit of an annoyance. OK, you're flying 1954 gliders, but that doesn't mean we have to have 1954 scoring! The one cumulation of scores posted on day 6 left more questions open than answered. For example, why does every finisher have exactly 2:00.00 time on day 5? Clearly the poor scorer is doing a lot of fudging to get 1 26 rules and conventional scoring software to work together. Thanks to Tony final scores are hand copied to the daily report, but no final daily scoresheets to let us see how people did what they did.
>
> The practice of posting scores, which is expected for all sanctioned contests, is important to contestants as well as the larger community can see what's going on and check if it's right.
>
> John Cochrane

It my understanding that the 1-26 class was scored using SeeYou Competition.. One facility available and integrated with SeeYou Competition is the ability to post to soaringspot.com, a site maintained by Naviter (developers of SeeYou) for posting contest results. I would suggest that the daily and final scores be posted there and a simple link in the SSA daily report be included.

Not sure if there is a charge for a small contest like this utilizing soaringspot.com but would be simple test.

Ron Gleason

On Monday, 23 July 2012 08:06:58 UTC-6, (unknown) wrote:
> > The combined 13.5 meter and 1-26 Nationals was a really well run, fun and safe contest. The 1-26s won several days in less than perfect soaring conditions. It was especially good that several young men flew (and flew well) the contest (and provided the weather briefing).
> >
> > I am looking forward to next year.
> >
> > Bill Snead
> > 6W
>
> It's great you guys had a good contest. I'm especially glad to see both 1-26 and 13.5 meter come together and I hope this format thrives and expands. (We had 6 PW5 show up for the sky soaring weekend contest, so I hope there is some new blood for next year.)
>
> From this distance though, a few points. According to the contest reports, there was one injury requiring medical attention. And one pilot scored a finish under 126 rules even though he landed short of the airport. Is this "safe?"
>
> Also from a distance, the fact of no scoresheet is a bit of an annoyance. OK, you're flying 1954 gliders, but that doesn't mean we have to have 1954 scoring! The one cumulation of scores posted on day 6 left more questions open than answered. For example, why does every finisher have exactly 2:00.00 time on day 5? Clearly the poor scorer is doing a lot of fudging to get 1 26 rules and conventional scoring software to work together. Thanks to Tony final scores are hand copied to the daily report, but no final daily scoresheets to let us see how people did what they did.
>
> The practice of posting scores, which is expected for all sanctioned contests, is important to contestants as well as the larger community can see what's going on and check if it's right.
>
> John Cochrane

Since the 1-26 class was scored with SeeYou Competition I suggest that the scores be posted to www.soaringspot.com, a web site maintained by Naviter the developers of SeeYou, and has good integration with SeeYou Competition.

A simple link to the results can be included in the daily report or in the results section on the SSA website.

BTW, SeeYou Competition is being utilized for scoring the upcoming WGC2012 in Uvalde and is used by many other FAI sanctioned competitions.

First of all, Bill, Tom, Francois..... it was great to see you and fly with you again. I think we continue to make a good mix.

On scoring, we have used See You for years quite successfully, both with Tom Presley, and other scores since Tom. Tom has had all the scoring scripts incorporated into a file which was sent to the scorer before the contest. I also emailed to make sure it was sent. Our scorer was just going to use Winscore at first until it was pointed out that the rules were too different. He was not familiar with the See You Competition program and took a couple of days to get going. After he had things going a couple of us did the calculations to ensure things were working correctly. It was quite frustrating being there racing and not having a good idea of how you were doing. This was the first contest I have attended where daily sheets were not handed out. Day 5 ended up being an invalid 1-26 day, that was not noticed until the last evening and it had been included in the total score. This changed some of the final standings. Bob Hurni, Bill Vickland and my self stayed up until midnight checking through the totals to ensure everything was as accurate as we could make things.

This is one of the major potential problems with mixing the two groups, but is usually works a little smoother than it did this time.

We have a 14 day period for scores to be checked before making final. We hope to get all of the IGC files and get everything double checked before that time.

Kevin
192

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:16:45 AM UTC-6, Papa3 wrote:
> I think there's a Nationals going on, but I'm not sure. The contest is over in two days, and so far no word on who's winning or even if there are scores. Anybody have any intel?

I had fun. I think the 1-26ers like their rules (they wrote their rules). When new people volunteer to do the jobs necessary to run contests, we should expect a learning curve. This sport should welcome and encourage new competitors and workers.

Bill Snead
6W